This Land Is Our Land: A Tribe Called Camp

We're sitting down with Ron Frazier, the founder of A Tribe Called Camp, discussing his outdoor lifestyle concept - a movement that encourages Black people to get outside, travel and camp. 

Transcript

spk_1:   0:00
this'd Janine Hayes and Brian Mason of Afro Chic. And you're joining us for one story up. A celebration of the culture of the African diaspora and the stories that created each month

spk_2:   0:13
we sit down with creatives, innovators and tastemakers from a variety of different disappear. Wants to highlight the intersection of overlap of these fields. Well, evaluating and expanding our notion of black culture One story at a time.

spk_1:   0:25
Today we're in Brooklyn, and we're speaking with Ron Frasier, the founder of a tribe called Camp, a movement that encourages black people to get outside travel and camp. So, Ron, you know this When we heard about a tribe called Camp, um, we were both Brian. I were like, What is this whole movement about? And that's because neither of us like camping. Yeah, I'm

spk_2:   0:50
a city kid. I'm a city kid, you know,

spk_1:   0:52
And I grew up in in a small town, but I was a girl scout and one of my but one of the memories that traumatized me was camping. I had one night where we had to camp and I didn't even make it through the night. Like I called my mom. I was like you have to come get me. Like being outside and wild animals is not for me. So we had

spk_2:   1:15
the greatest time. Like outside. I mean, she's been chased by a coyote. Oh, no. I

spk_1:   1:21
feel like she's had she's had all the interesting outdoor stories. So? So I think it's fascinating, though, that you are doing this whole movement of being outdoors. So let's start by just telling us what is a tribe called camp.

spk_0:   1:37
Yeah, Yeah. Thank you guys for having me. Uh, you know, it's always exciting

spk_2:   1:41
to talk about

spk_0:   1:41
this stuff with other black bugs. Uh, I mean, a trial called Camp essentially was me and a bunch of buddies, man. It was my crew. You know, we basically over the years, uh, you know, we all, like enjoy the outdoors. Um, you know, we had friends that obviously grew up, got older, uh, started families, businesses, et cetera. And we don't have much time to hang out or going big trips like we used to.

spk_1:   2:10
I

spk_0:   2:10
want to stay connected. So it originally came up with a way to kind of inspire the crew to just stay active and to get outside and get some more trips going, so we didn't really define it. O r have Ah, you know, one thing in particular was more so just about getting all my you know, my buddies together, Um, you know, whether it was, like a ski trip or going hiking or anything that it wasn't like we had one particular activity. It could have been just, you know, traveling to another city just for a week, in the kicking with the boys, whatever

spk_2:   2:46
you

spk_0:   2:47
really how it how it kind of came together. Everybody had their own different interests, but it was more so about keeping guys active and connected.

spk_2:   2:59
How did you guys come up with the name? Because, I mean, it clearly calls up a tribe. Questions got nothing but like, positive intentions for us. But is there, like, a deeper significance? Is tribe have any other meanings in the outdoor community?

spk_0:   3:13
Yeah, for sure. So, you know, we were trying to figure out something, you know, that would represent all of us, obviously. You know, to Schmidt's a tribe called Quest. They were big inspiration. And part of what inspired me about them was their idea of movement, right? They always talk about moving, and

spk_1:   3:30
he was not in

spk_0:   3:30
doing stuff, you know, pushing culture for pushing your goals forward. So, you know, it was when things were smile, said it out loud. And if I just kind of way Yeah,

spk_1:   3:41
yeah, that's

spk_0:   3:43
it. So and then the other thing, too, is, as we, you know, started getting more deliberate about sort of actual camping and being outside and get into more exotic places. You know, that narrative about black people camping and seeing folks outside represented we wanted to The nag was inclusive and didn't necessarily have a certain connotation to it. We just want That was like, Hey, everybody's welcome. It's all good. Whatever your story is, whatever your background is, you know, we all we all can do this. Um, you know?

spk_1:   4:19
Yeah. And I love that, you know, Tribe called camp. Like you said, it's just all about getting together with your boys with, you know, people that your fellow shipping with, um But where did the journey start for you? With camping. How did you first fall in love with just super being in the outdoors.

spk_0:   4:38
So I was looking up to grow up with it I'm from Charlotte, North Carolina. Um, you know, which is definitely a city. Uh, but, you know, my country cousins was, like, right down the road, and we were definitely exposed to being outside. We didn't call it can't being anything like that, you know, we just would go run in the woods, right?

spk_2:   4:57
Right. Inflection

spk_0:   4:58
goods. Right. Uh, we were also blessed enoughto have access to a lake. You know, my dad was real big on, like, Hey, you know, you guys you don't know how to swim. You know, they grew up swimming, and this is a safety issue, right? So the West Wind see, I went to had a famous swim instructor, Mr Harris. He taught half the west side how to swim, and so we we weren't those. You know what I mean? The other black kids couldn't swim. It was kind of like what? You

spk_1:   5:28
know,

spk_0:   5:29
like everybody knows from, you know, from my side of town could swim with Mr Harris mission by could.

spk_1:   5:33
Wow, we

spk_0:   5:35
were all outdoors. We just didn't call it camping or put we didn't put labels on. We just We just from kids running around the woods, right and if it was nice enough you want to sleep outside? It wasn't no big deal, like cool. You know, that's been in the back yard, you know, it just wasn't We didn't put a label on it without buy gear. You

spk_1:   5:55
know, if this

spk_0:   5:55
were don't be doing as far as the actual camping part, we can't a little bit as a kid as far as, like, the whole 10 thing, But we didn't know we were doing and my folks anointing about that so we didn't know, like, about not hi ng and all that crap. You know, we did the Boy Scouts, but it wasn't really for us. We were in the city. The truth wasn't active. And I don't think it was really for black boys at that time anyway, right?

spk_1:   6:23
So

spk_0:   6:24
as I got older, we were doing various things outside, and I started my family and I said, You know what? I need to find an activity specifically that we can do and everyone's on the ground floor to gather. I need what I can do it myself. I can do with my kids. I could do with my wife and the kids when she wants to come and everyone can kind of hit the ground at the same level, you know, and be involved, though that's kind of work. Camping specifically came in. Um, it just was something we could all do together. And what was great about it was again. It didn't matter who could make it out that we

spk_1:   7:02
can,

spk_0:   7:03
which is me, my buddies, my wife, the kids, whatever, you know, I am. Whoever could show up could just have a good time and be be active.

spk_2:   7:12
All right, Cool. And now you're talking about how we like it is good to really talk about some black folks about camping, and so I mean, if we won't really get right into it, it's camping, something that black people do. I mean, we've heard about we're here to your experience, and this is clearly like a long and developed love affair. But, you know, way from the north. And you know, So for us, it was really like when we first started talking to you about this was so amazing about it was it brought up that question, which I don't need anything we had ever thought to ask. Before there was this sort of an immediate no eso. Yeah. So, like, what is that assumption come like? Is there, like, a strong contingent? Or, you know, if there isn't, why is there such an assumption that that it's not something that we do?

spk_0:   7:57
No, we definitely do it. We definitely do it.

spk_2:   8:00
It's

spk_0:   8:00
maybe not talked about, you know, or something that were known for doing. But, you know, I feel kind of folks outside when we get out there. So, um, you'll run into anything and everything

spk_1:   8:13
at some point

spk_0:   8:14
that said, you know, we've got some real Well, we've had some real challenges. As far as access goes, safety safety is a huge

spk_1:   8:22
issue from

spk_0:   8:23
the South. Three idea. Going for a walk in the woods with a dangerous thing to do. You know, even in my lifetime, you know,

spk_1:   8:32
we'll let alone

spk_0:   8:33
my folks in my grand folks lifetime. So, um, those issues, they're still rial. You know, to this day, if I go out on a trip and don't let my pops, you know exactly what I'm gonna be when I'm gonna come back. It causes him real stress. You know I

spk_1:   8:47
can't

spk_0:   8:47
work for our safety and it's definitely a generational gap there. So, you know, do we can't? Absolutely. Um But there's been some real real reason why we didn't in the past, you know? I mean, the green book. Israel.

spk_2:   9:01
Yeah.

spk_0:   9:01
Uh, and even now, you know, we've kind of got an overload, that fear, but an anxiety, but the same time, you know, yet he prepares, gotta be smart, you know, you're going so

spk_2:   9:13
yeah, and so I mean, we see that a lot of things, you know, Just say the more things have changed, the more they've stayed the same. And so, you know, is that as that continues, you know, they're continues then to be, you know, uh, it requires, like a certain amount of resolution like that you're going to be present in this space regardless of that. So let's talk a little bit about for you, Like, what is your take on the importance of that of claiming the outdoors and space that we as Americans are entitled to? You know, despite the difficulties, obstacles and the clear dangers that have presented to us in that space,

spk_0:   9:51
you put it perfectly, resolution. And then it went from when we first got into it again. Especially now that we have, like wives and Children, right? That's a whole different level of anxiety. And concern

spk_1:   10:02
is one

spk_0:   10:02
thing. You know, it is Amanda Patricia, about there, and go out and do whatever. But you have your Children with you or your wife, you know, obviously would make sure that they're safe is down. So I think, honestly, it was repetition, man. The 1st 3 times, you kind of fill things out. Kind of what it's about. And that's not so much that I'm afraid of the people as Donald I'm afraid of. I don't know. I don't know what the norms are. What? The customs are

spk_1:   10:27
right around

spk_0:   10:28
my space. I don't know what to expect. You know, when I get out here, you know? How do you greet people? How do you deal with folks? You know how they're gonna greet me, You know, I'm gonna be carrying guns. You know, something crazy.

spk_1:   10:42
Should

spk_0:   10:43
I care? You got what you wanted. So you know all these, you know, kind of go to your head, and then the more you do it, you know, I think you learn by doing you got a certain comfort. And then at some point, you kind of say, you know, f it, man. Like it's our country too. Our space too. You know, I don't need to ask you before. I'm just going to do it, you know, like people aren't geniuses. They don't know, you know, more or less than we do. They just went out and did it, you know, we could do the same thing, and that's kind of been our attitude. Now, you know, we don't really I think I think a lot of our friends, you know, you know, black and white, you know, whatever are kind of shot. Sometimes we say we're gonna do something. We actually do it

spk_2:   11:27
way.

spk_0:   11:28
Don't let you know. That's not knowing about it. Stop us from going. We just got that looks dope.

spk_1:   11:33
I love that. And actually using Think of Ah, the Gary Clark Jr song. We were just listening. Thio. This land is our land. And it was awesome. Yeah, and so it really takes me to that. You know, you're doing tribe called camp, but there's this whole movement out there. Um outdoor afro this outdoor Afro movement. Tell us more about that.

spk_0:   11:58
So outdoor Afro. You know we love that man. We really support those guys. Uh, we're not directly involved in them. I know they have local chapters, and there's also a national organization as well. But it's super inspiring, right? Because they're kind of Sanyo. This is for us. And what's the best part about it? Is there not? They're not, you know, insisting on going to these crazy, inaccessible places. They're doing everything from leg legit like, you know, rock climbing to let's just go to our local park space.

spk_1:   12:33
That's

spk_0:   12:34
another thing to people about the outdoors and what you know, getting outside means dancer than that. We were on early because we had people in different cities, different situations in life. We were trying inspire each other to get outside the active, and we didn't put rules and what that meant, you know? So my home away, which is walking in the park or riding his bike to work, you know, that was good enough Way didn't like we're not out here late, you know, like measuring and be like, Oh, you know, you didn't do this, Do that. You didn't go hard enough So that's what I really, really appreciate about after outgrow that there not only getting people outside, but they let him come to it in their own terms. You know, I'm just saying,

spk_2:   13:14
Hey,

spk_0:   13:15
you know, you don't have to go to some national part. You've got this beautiful local park space.

spk_2:   13:21
All right? So it's not like the one

spk_0:   13:22
you know, we both had issues with our neighborhoods and communities with taking care of our communities, you know, and green space and enjoy and dino are green space. Um, that's been that they've been in front of some things from the get go so that, you know, shots out there.

spk_2:   13:39
All right? Yes. I mean, it's it's not like it sounds like what they're doing is not one of those, like, you know, testosterone driven, you know, extreme, like you've got to be, you know, living out in the world in the wilds for months at a time, like naked and afraid type. Jones, what is this like or you're not really doing it. It sounds like they're just letting everybody come to it, you know, in whatever lovely doing kind of grow within the community as best suits though.

spk_0:   14:08
Yeah, that's what's dope, though, that some of them are, though. I mean, they've got representatives, you know, in members who are literally climbing mountain,

spk_1:   14:17
right?

spk_0:   14:19
And I've got others. We're just trying to get their their community, you know, in a local park space.

spk_2:   14:27
What's

spk_0:   14:27
the big deal? You know, I mean, I I live in Charlotte, one of our biggest parks, Freedom Park. You know, I've got it, You know, siblings who had never been to that part.

spk_1:   14:38
You had a

spk_0:   14:39
birthday party there. There's the Nature museum nature trails in the park. They had no idea it was even there. And it's their city, and they're in my family,

spk_1:   14:48
so it's

spk_0:   14:48
really, you

spk_1:   14:49
know, like

spk_0:   14:49
I mean,

spk_1:   14:51
yeah, you see that? So So often, Like you're saying within, you know, the black community. Um, you know, either people don't know that those spaces are there and available. Or don't feel comfortable because communities have have gone through some, you know, traumatic. Um, you know things in parks, you know, there's some parts have not been very welcoming, you know, we're open to us, particularly if you've, um, grandparents or parents who lived through segregation. You know, the park was not always a space that are There are certain parts of the park that you could not go to, um or access. And I think, what's great about what you're doing. The trial called Camp. What's inspiring about it, you know, is that you're really, you know, opening up this idea that thes spaces, you know, are very much, um, for us. Whether it's, you know, I'm going to like you're saying you know Charlotte and going to the park where you that's near your home or like you're doing, you're going all over the country to explore different places. What were some of the places that that you guys have gone? Thio? Um, I know you. You guys have been Has it been like Is it Oregon that you guys went out two or Utah? Remember?

spk_2:   16:09
No, there's there's a town in the middle of a desert in the middle of Utah. Is that right? Yeah, about Meg

spk_0:   16:22
made it. It's funny. Is meccas ball kind of people? Right? So hbcu do dome echoes

spk_1:   16:27
hbcu Hey, that's

spk_0:   16:31
it. You know, if you're into the fore before or off road or mountain biking Roder, even the rock climbing world. You know, Moab is one of those meccas. Uh, we've been hearing about Moab for years and seen in the photos. We didn't think it was for us. What is the question of taking black boats? But the pictures look dope. You know, we started getting outside and camping, and we're getting more experience and, you know, kind of learning how things work. And I was like, Yo, you know, we should go. You know, my brother like, Yeah, we should know the dope was shut out the stables, intense the code and tell your friends of ours they're gonna great. YouTube channel called Stapleton said, um, we run into them at an outdoor show. You know, you like, Oh, black folks were stopped, you know? And we threw out this idea going toe over an expert west in Moab. And a year later, we just did it, you know? And again, that's one of our big things. We just say, Hey, write down all the places we want to go. You write it down, be delivered, then we just plan. We pick a date and we commit, and then we just do it, you

spk_1:   17:41
know? So

spk_0:   17:42
we hit Moab. Let's see what else we did. Went all over Utah. In Arizona, You're the north rim of the Grand Canyon. That was really don't cause no from the Grand King is not with this kind of non touristy spot. Um, I think when the partner I just saw him pull up, he was just, like, common. He said I saw the direction you came from. How did you find it? We can explain how we got there. Oh. Well, here's the radio channel for the Rangers. You can go wherever you want. We're like, Well, what do you mean? He's like, You can go wherever you want. So Well, when do we know the stop? It goes, You'll know.

spk_1:   18:16
Know

spk_0:   18:16
Know. So then we did Oregon Oregon with dope. We had again. You made some friends in Arizona and this is even open. The whole tribe called camping. Right? So we made a bunch of trail friends in Arizona. Fault if all around Utah And then the following year, we got trouble her again. And those guys from Arizona and Utah in a Canadian actually came and met us in Oregon. Also

spk_2:   18:43
way

spk_0:   18:44
did the whole Oregon Coast sand dunes of the rainforest there. So that's kind of our thing, man. As we always find and try to find allies where we go, you know, we call making our allies, so we could sort of help with logistics trip planning.

spk_1:   18:59
Absolutely.

spk_0:   19:01
Yeah, Just give me even temples, like shipping your gear out. You know, are or having somebody you know, local that you could say, Hey, we're flying in on this day.

spk_2:   19:10
Can

spk_0:   19:10
we post up for a night or kind of stage at your place So we can kind of figure out you know, what we're gonna get into?

spk_2:   19:16
Yeah, Let's just let's let's get into the nuts and bolts of this. I mean, like we've seen on your instagram where sometimes you've been in in forests and sometimes you guys win, we'll look like desserts. So what are the differences between the two? You know, like, what is this? Some of the preparations you need, Um, and then kind of what things qualify as comforts when you're out in those areas. And then what is it, like the absolute necessities?

spk_0:   19:40
Yeah, that's a great question. And I'm probably as far as the comforts parts that are obviously, Very depending on what you're doing, right. If you're on the water, your comforts are different than if you're hiking. The car can't be. What have you So, um, as far as the desert birds of the forest at the big thing that we we learned you hear about But we didn't really that we had experience. Was the temperature changes?

spk_1:   20:07
Absolutely. Yeah, that Israel, you know,

spk_0:   20:13
going from, you know, high he during the day with sun Hi, too, you know, bitterly cold at night when the sun is low or doing elevation changes where you're going higher elevation, which is usually more force down into a valley or a desert area where it's much cooler. Um, you know, or hotter with Pino the situation, Um that's really that's that's Ah, that's a planning inch into the white gear you bring. You know, we're robbing a layer, Ming. You know you want to obviously have here that's functional. First, you know, you can go as light as possible. If that's gonna work. You know that whole by once cry once Things I think that's

spk_1:   20:56
important when

spk_0:   20:57
you're first getting in. You know, we did like everybody else. We want the Walmart and bought cheap stuff, and that's great. But if you're gonna keep doing it, you know, it's some point you're gonna probably want a quot year that's gonna last. You.

spk_1:   21:14
How did you guys learn about, like all that gear that you need it like, do you? It sounds like there is very much this this community that's forming. Um, were you guys like you said or taking some trips together doing logistics together? Are you guys also sort of sharing, you know? Hey, here's the latest thing that's out here like this tent. Are these sleeping bags or these are the things you need.

spk_0:   21:39
I'm not gonna lie so well. Im couple outdoors. I had camped in a minute, right?

spk_1:   21:45
And I've got

spk_0:   21:45
kids. So I was like, I need to get, like, just get some education's basic training. A leg was you know what to do. An emergency, like how to certain things work.

spk_1:   21:55
I

spk_0:   21:55
went to r e I r

spk_1:   21:57
e.

spk_0:   21:57
I had this, like, keeping 101 class, and I went and sat attack the only black person. Uh, it was cool, honestly, because they do kind of walked you through all the products in the store and explain to you what the ratings meant. While the price points where they were, it didn't actually teach you how to camp, but at least gave you a baseline for products, right? And all the gear. You understand what was waiting?

spk_1:   22:26
I love hearing this because now we're going to send a lot of black folks to Ari I so they can wait. Philip, that class learn more. I

spk_0:   22:39
mean, it was actually kind of helped plot. I think I was going into looking for actual like camping, like first aid. Like what? You know what, e

spk_1:   22:51
I want that kind of I've got to say that way. First question like one

spk_2:   22:56
of the reasons I don't really go camping is because I've considered the circumstances of seeing a bear like clothes, and with regard to what to do, I I don't think there are any really good answer.

spk_1:   23:07
I think I have a really spray. They use

spk_0:   23:12
my you know, my rule. You got you some comments from these things, right? So the truth is I mean, I don't think this problem about animals go. They're a huge issue anymore, you know? Just the country so populated.

spk_1:   23:29
Eso

spk_0:   23:30
fue areas that you know that don't have some people coming through at some point. So there's that part. I think most animals tend to leave us alone. That's Ah, one of our big rule. There's no food in the tent. We'll go where the food is, whether that's raccoons and critters or coyotes or whatever. Um, com instances don't eat where you sleep. And that's especially true for bears. So, um, I think, honestly, if you follow that, that one simple rule

spk_1:   24:05
well, and you guys cook when you're I mean, you guys are, like making, like, you know, little camp food that I remember John like Hi. Yeah, I think I saw in one of the photos, like some scallops that were going on, and I was like, Okay, I might have to get out there just to like, you know, enjoy the food. But how do you also think about those preparations? Because I you know, you guys, it sounds like you're, you know, in a jeep or something, where you're off roading, and, um, you have, like, a setup for all the cooking needs as well, right?

spk_0:   24:40
Yeah. So we're definitely car campers that starts saying, You know, we like the comfort of having a vehicle and always tell people pushing for black folks who are interested in getting outside of doing camping. But don't we know where to start? If you've got a car and you hate it, just leave

spk_2:   25:01
because he

spk_0:   25:02
gets that bad. You can just get in your car. Go So I recommend Kharkiv. Um, don't need a ton of gear. You know you can sleep in the car. It'll keep me dry. You know, it'll keep drilling. Will be warm to you, could bring actual blankets from home, and I got somebody bag. Just kind of try it out. Even now, if I go

spk_1:   25:22
on

spk_0:   25:22
myself, I tend to sleep in the back of my truck, which is simpler, a wet or or putting gear away. Hop in, hop out and ready to go. And as far as the cooking goes, my brother shot crew, obviously,

spk_1:   25:38
who we had on the very first podcast.

spk_0:   25:44
Yeah, it's every side of, you know, pulled together, obviously, is a highly accomplished chef, and we get excited about beating way. Be picked these trips, right? Well, everyone, tomorrow everyone or again. We looked in that and we see water and coastline. The first thought is, Oh, fresh, fresh seafood

spk_1:   26:04
way Got to do it, you

spk_0:   26:05
know. So that's part of the adventure is like, you know, we'll get out there. We may have one or two meals plan already right? But then will literally go crying for fresh food. So that's part of the fun is like saying, Hey, we're on the ocean. It's all your little coastal town. Let's go find some fresh seafood. And also you're making your meeting locals and talking to locals and getting more intel on what's going on. So some of our best best camping spots are. I'm actually only best came in spots, came from meeting somebody local in the second of a conversation, and they tell us where to go.

spk_1:   26:44
Wow, So you start camping. You are? No, you are. You're fishing. You're Are you foraging when you're out there, too?

spk_0:   26:53
No, we don't actually do that. We

spk_1:   26:55
usually come

spk_0:   26:55
prepared to settle for me that the safety issue right

spk_2:   26:58
again.

spk_0:   26:59
It's like we don't know enough about the local, you know, whatever. T know what's safe to eat us. Far as that goes, we don't have taken it that far. And the truth and the truth is, especially in the East Coast. There's a walmart 1/2 hour from everywhere on the

spk_1:   27:15
theme. That's that's

spk_0:   27:17
just the truth. If you on the East Coast out west, little bit different, they got they got much larger spaces,

spk_1:   27:22
right? But

spk_0:   27:23
even then, you know, I tell you, if you've got fuel, are

spk_2:   27:27
you

spk_0:   27:27
get you could

spk_2:   27:30
see it like that goes back to that common sense thing you were talking about. See, I like this way starting to get some, like, really food tips. No food in a tent. Don't eat where you sleep and taking accomplished chef with you. So

spk_1:   27:43
they think so. Did you get the easy way

spk_0:   27:46
to meet people, too, when you got somebody you know, a serious chef, You know, we've got 20. We've got so many comments, people saying like, you know, I've been hiking your doing an outdoor stuff my whole life. I've never seen anyone cook like this. You know, I've never seen these kind of colors.

spk_2:   28:03
You

spk_0:   28:03
can't kneel, and that's definitely, you know, my brother and his cookie heat. He really enjoys cooking outside and the challenge of putting together like a really, really don't meal. You know, in that in that, in those conditions, it's not hard. It's simple today, that's all. The cooking part for him is easy. It's the cleanup, which I handle

spk_1:   28:25
things, right? Yeah. I'm like,

spk_0:   28:29
bra. What? The food was amazing. We don't have a pot, but you got here.

spk_2:   28:40
You see how that goes? You know, we get some black people camping out of elevating the food game, elevating the food game outside. You know, like you need a shit news faces. Now you mentioned ah, that Moab is the draw for a lot of different groups. So, like, in addition to camping, what are some of the other outdoor, uh, communities that you've come across? Yeah.

spk_0:   29:05
Yeah. So we talked about this a lot, too, Which was funny. It is that the term outdoors is so broad. Legal? What got you You could wipe out your front door, right? And you're outside, so they get outside. And I was like, Well, that's where my mindset that it is like an actual activity because you've got all these various tribes, you know? You got the hunting crowd. You know who plays shopping? Cabela's

spk_1:   29:26
you got,

spk_0:   29:28
you know, the hiking backpacker. Proud. You know, you've got people who are in the fishing. You know, you get people who are into, like, flying and doing crazy stuff in planes whenever there's all kind of court doing with

spk_1:   29:38
about, you

spk_0:   29:40
know, snowsports, water sports, whatever. So it's such a broad definition, I tell you, we don't get so caught up, you know, in late what he's doing, just go out and do it. You know, if you think it looks fun and dough, just go do it. And And the truth is that quality people who are doing some of these sports, right, it looks super technical.

spk_2:   30:02
Yeah, they

spk_0:   30:03
love questions. They love interest. I think if you walked up in, just said, yo, I know nothing about this. How does this work? They're flattered that you're asking them Typically, that's when we do. A lot of we do a lot of listening. We meet people, you know these random places. You know, even if you talk about, you know, access earlier in the I think because we lied within our energies like, Hey, we're so happy to be here. This is dope window of nowhere we ran into, You know where?

spk_2:   30:37
No.

spk_0:   30:37
Clearly, you have to be a common cause. We're both here and then we ask a lot of questions and do a lot of listening people of each other story. And that's how we kind of learned. So we kind of learned from

spk_1:   30:51
that. That's pretty cool that it's in some ways it can break down barriers because this whole outdoor world is a tribe in itself, you know? Absolutely.

spk_0:   31:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's what time I pop that where you know, he gets nervous. He's, you know, he's like, Hey, you know, I don't understand. You guys just do this, you know? What would you do? Where do you go? My pop? Like, you know, somebody pumped our country to you got to stop on the way, and I respect my pops. And obviously 11 death, like his mind to the leg you don't belong somewhere, is you let that go. It's holding you back is going down Now. If you don't want to go, that's different.

spk_2:   31:37
Afro Chic magazine is a lifestyle publication celebrating design our food and fashion from across the African aspirin roots says average chic magazines for us by us celebrating our own incomparable influence. Get the magazine that celebrates the culture at afro chic dot com. And now that's something that it becomes important for us. Like one a lot of different levels because, you know, even seen and I saying that we we haven't had the experience. We're going camping. We have had the experience of, you know, seeing those kind of barriers really everywhere. So it's not even just a question of, like, out this far. Outside of semi city limits, black people aren't welcome. I remember when we used to live in D. C. We knew a number of people who actually wouldn't go into Georgetown. Um, because they felt as if there was a certain attitude, a certain you know, um, something against them in that area. So they just they wouldn't go into certain parts of the city. Um, much as you said, you know, knowing people who had never been to the park in your area, you know, even though it's been there forever because they felt as though they weren't welcome there, they didn't belong. We've seen the same thing with museums in different cities that we've lived in. We've seen the same things with beaches, you know, and we know that this is not It's not a baseless concern. You know, there's a history there. They're real traumas there. In some cases, there are even continued, you know, concepts. You know, this is a continued bias against us that goes on there. So I think it's really important. You know what you guys were doing and outdoor Afro and everyone who's going out there just because one to overcome that kind of that reservation in our own minds with and also to make the statement that you know everywhere is somewhere that is open to us.

spk_1:   33:28
So you know, what's the furthest out that you guys have gone like, You know? I mean, well, organ sounds pretty far from Charlotte over again. Um, but is that the furthest trip? And how long you know, what's the longest trip you've taken?

spk_0:   33:42
Yeah, the longest done is two weeks. We did it like, you know, 14 days.

spk_1:   33:47
Wow.

spk_0:   33:50
So that's why the longest. And even then, you know, there's little that just extended the leg. You know, where we going

spk_1:   33:59
when we get there? Is there

spk_0:   34:00
fuel these waters? Food? You know,

spk_2:   34:03
there's a lot of

spk_0:   34:04
our, you know, one of our big one of our big rules, especially with the kids, is if we've got a A window, right, maybe the weekend. Maybe it's seven days use 14 days. The rule is we got nowhere to be.

spk_1:   34:18
You think

spk_0:   34:19
you think feeling it or Mom's tired or Dad's tired. We just stopped, like, you know, let's go get ice cream. Let's just do something fun. Oh, there's a park, There is a river, There's a water, Whatever. We don't really press with this, like idea. We have some sort of itinerary we have. The whole were very very, you know, laid back. And I think that relaxes. People I know relaxes us. We're some point. Realize that you don't have to go, go, go like it's okay. Slow down, Take your time. So

spk_2:   34:49
that's

spk_0:   34:51
what he's probably just expelled as far as the most remote. Oh, man. So the north from the Grand Canyon is pretty remote. It's

spk_1:   35:00
not even

spk_0:   35:01
you could get to about road, but if you take trail to get in, that could be pretty remote and then our most remote place, Utah. Is it? And this is why we love Utah and I get what more Finns love you.

spk_1:   35:15
Talk.

spk_0:   35:17
It's biblical levels of beautiful

spk_1:   35:20
like

spk_0:   35:21
I could I could totally see myself as a settler or whatever. Try to get out to California thinking Utah. Be like, Yeah, God

spk_2:   35:30
complain. I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, I

spk_0:   35:33
always joked like black

spk_1:   35:34
people have thought

spk_0:   35:35
Utah first. That would be Atlanta.

spk_1:   35:39
Um,

spk_0:   35:41
so what makes Utah joke, though? Is it like you got Salt Lake City? You know, in a couple of towns. But for the most part, I don't know what this has been like, 70 80% of the state this publicly and, you know,

spk_1:   35:53
wow, I

spk_0:   35:54
developed coming from the East Coast. It's kind of hard to get your head around how much space that means, like how much open space there is out there. And that's why you know, I know people associate Utah with the Mormon church mike and stuff.

spk_2:   36:09
But

spk_0:   36:10
as far as public space outdoor space, National Park space, it's a treasure man. It's just beautiful. You can drive for days and not see a soul out there, and they've got as many public trails, which you're well traveled as non public trails where you can go,

spk_1:   36:30
Just be out. I mean, when you guys were taking these trips, do you take your family with you? You have. You have Children? Um, and, uh, not especially. I don't know. Did the whole family go in the two week trip? Because that sounds like that. That could be a lot with Children. Um, are they as hard core as you are about the camping experience?

spk_0:   36:51
My kids love it, you know, because for them again, for them is because they can go. I can take this one of the boys or both of the boys. We can bring off my life, too. And they kind of have their job. And what do we get in camp? They help, Like firewood else of tend not to get their chairs out, like like, for them. It's fun, but they feel like they got responsibilities. And they're big boys, and they can kind of do their thing, you know, run around. So the other thing I took all the time to that. If you're worried about taking your kids, you know, doing any activity especially camping, though, is a lot better with other kids.

spk_1:   37:28
Like going

spk_0:   37:29
to a campground. My kids media looking for a kid.

spk_2:   37:33
How old are your boys?

spk_0:   37:35
I've got a seven year old, a four year old?

spk_1:   37:37
No.

spk_0:   37:39
Yeah. Yeah. So? So they like it, you know, And again, I think for them it's just another adventure. And they also kind of get into where they understand the leg. Hey, if they want to stop, we can stop. Like, you know, we don't need no pressure with the drive hours time. Really? Hey, you want to pull over? Or it could. Just for fun. Let's go do something fun, you know? So that's kind of our attitude.

spk_2:   38:02
No.

spk_0:   38:04
One of our pictures with the kids was we did a 10 day trip

spk_1:   38:07
wound

spk_0:   38:08
Maine, and that was interesting because it was on the East Coast, right? So we can't all the way up the East Coast up to Maine and then back to Caroline.

spk_1:   38:19
Oh, my goodness.

spk_0:   38:20
And it makes you realize, again, just how developed the East Coast is, how much private land there is in the East Coast,

spk_2:   38:26
you

spk_0:   38:27
know, it's not like outlast where you could just sort of go on, you know, BLM land or find a national park of a state park. Get to be a little more deliberate on the East Coast. You know, you could play about gate from these coats, were on the trail, hiking or driving and your game because,

spk_2:   38:47
right? Yeah, well, I mean, it's just really interesting. And I'm learning a lot about this because, you know, it was interesting to me is from what I'm hearing from you, how you know how multi layered you know this is and how many options there are. So it seems like you know, these types of this, this kind of outdoor lifestyle they can be It can be a personal challenge, but it doesn't have to be. You know, you can control not, you know, whatever the extent that was your doing, Deacon Bi communal. Or you can find the places where you can see, not see another place person for days. Um, or you can go and specifically have to go for the experience of seeing not only seeing new places, meeting new people and kind of hearing their story and what life is like for them where they're at and kind of make these friendships. Um, which is really cool. Like it never really thought about it as as having so many different options for just like the type of experience in the ways in which you could approach it. Um, but now let's list. We've talked about the logistics. When we talk about the places, let's get a little esoteric because it has so many, uh, different avenues for you to travel. What I want to know is like So what is nature to you specifically like? What does it offer and why do you feel like you're drawn to it? You know? What do you What is it that you're you're taking or leaving when you're going out and coming back?

spk_0:   40:08
That's a great question. And I mean, like I said, I'm blessed. I grew up knowing what nature isn't. What you know, outdoors is, you know, uh, you know my folks, my grandparents, like again we didn't We didn't camp. We didn't hike, wouldn't having these labels. We just were outside because it was nice to be outside. Then we had trees in open spaces. You spent all day outside, you know, But I think my folks in my grand folks. He was a real appreciation for nature. You know, my

spk_1:   40:40
grandma had

spk_0:   40:40
guarded garden every day. You know, we were at my grandparentshouse like, that's what we did. You know, I think I hear about farm to table. I gotta laugh like, you know, that was just people going to get,

spk_2:   40:55
you know,

spk_0:   40:57
So I think in that kind of spirit we've always had was a good appreciation for nature. And honestly, you know, I was when the kid, that thing Where if I saw a National Geographic or I saw a poster I saw image, I was like, that dope, That's beautiful. I want to see

spk_1:   41:15
it.

spk_0:   41:16
And, you know, my parents, I think, did a great job. I'd just be like, Yo, just go like you don't have to, like, as

spk_1:   41:26
just participating, you know?

spk_0:   41:28
Yeah, all the time. Like you're overthinking it like the biggest death is to do it like you just got a plan and just go and people at the plant and get in the way. But I think that's also wife arrives, you know, making that list of where you want to go and then just setting a date and just committing to that day, things will fall into place.

spk_1:   41:52
Right way. How

spk_0:   41:53
do we get there?

spk_1:   41:55
You want

spk_0:   41:55
to get there? You know who's coming.

spk_1:   41:59
I love that you guys air, you know, planning these, you know, excursions and finding things. Because I can remember a family trip that we took a few years ago. I think my niece was about our needs about two years old. And, um, we were in Maryland, and my brother in law found like this This, like, state park like invert. I think it was in Virginia and we drove to it and there were, like, wild horses. And then we went, And then there was a beach and we got there and and we were used to being from the East Coast and being from the Northeast, you're used to going to the beach. You have to pay for your beach tag. TV will sit on the beach. So anything we go when, like, even one way recently, North Carolina and you're like, I can just step on the beach like Wait, what's going on? Like I don't know that there's no way Anybody money. Um, so we go in this speech is beautiful. And there are It's mostly white people. I think we were maybe the only black family, at least on the part of the beach that we were. And we didn't know that this was like this was, you know, protected land, that it was public land. Um, and it blew our minds. We were just, like, who? Like, how do you find out about, you know, that these places exist? So I think that you know, this movement that you're creating that on Lee. Is it something that is about showing people like, Hey, just get out there. But also, you're planning these trips and showing people that their place that exists that we can go to, you know, an experience. So I just wonder for you, like, what do you feel? Could be some of the benefits of greater black participation in camping and other outdoor lifestyle, You know, events and things that are going on out there.

spk_0:   43:45
Yeah. I mean, look, first of all, we're fun, weirdo. So that's that's

spk_1:   43:49
bythe

spk_0:   43:51
good to be around, um, looking like a culture thing, right? Like people would have a good time. They want to enjoy the outdoors. That's that's universal, right? So I think once the word gets out and we realize that this place is for us, I think also once you realized how cheap it is

spk_2:   44:12
way

spk_0:   44:12
talk about people, don't think they talk about like representation. And who's there who's in the magazine

spk_2:   44:18
and

spk_0:   44:18
yada, yada, yada. My big thing again is like Just do it because the other thing is it. These spaces are not expensive. I think that whole RV life down people's retirement the RV just travel

spk_2:   44:32
around.

spk_0:   44:33
They're doing it, probably because they can afford it because it's cheap. Maybe

spk_1:   44:37
the army in hard money,

spk_0:   44:39
but you can by being, you know, and get to the same spot on by, you know, $100,000 are deacon get you right? So, you know, I don't hear them talking about Helen and access the outdoors. It's usually focused on Lake marketing stuff. We're more like Yo, forget that, like just go

spk_1:   45:01
just get in your car and go. You

spk_0:   45:04
just go. And I think when people realized how affordable it could be, now there's a real debate about you. Talk about the beach, right? Had to pay for that

spk_1:   45:11
Yeah, that's

spk_0:   45:12
a real issue, especially a sum of our parts become more popular. But state parks are adult resource. The national parks are obviously adult resource to, And I think once people realize that it's cheap to me Free right, you can camp there for free, to set them free. The campground might be free, right? It's free. And I'm saying he's gonna show up

spk_1:   45:37
so right about your paid for by your taxpayer dollars. It's

spk_0:   45:45
probably negligible. So that's what we talked about. A lot were alive. When I meet with the black folks out, I'm always, always like you believe how gorgeous this is. You know, we're always in awe of how gorgeous your dope spaces, right? And then the second thing we just say is

spk_1:   46:01
way

spk_0:   46:05
just showed up.

spk_1:   46:06
Yeah, I know.

spk_2:   46:08
I think that you know, one of the really cool things about what we've been talking about it and what you've been telling us about the lifestyle is that that just do it mentality, you know? You know, I see this amazing place. I want to see that in person. It's not a question of, you know, waiting or hoping for something. It's just go. It's there. Go see it. All right. Um then is this idea of occupying space you know, claiming as ours space that we have a right to s citizens, you know, dealing with all of the history and the current events around all of those things. And then saying in even in the face of all of that, like this is my space to occupy as well. Uh, and then is also like the level of planning and logistics that goes into it, Um, making sure that you have what you need because it is a situation where you do need to have what you need in the things that you have need toe work or, you know, things change and you have to you have to change your plans. But then also, there's that willingness of kind of balance with this this willingness to kind of engage in a trial than ever and saying, OK, well, this didn't work. So I need to make sure that I do something different next time. Or, you know, I'm asking somebody. I'm a kind of relying on that community to learn more. So there seems like there are a lot of really good. A lot of really good traits that are not necessarily that requires where that are practiced and developed in the course of becoming successful. As somebody who really enjoys and engages in this is ah, a lifestyle. Um, So my question is, do you feel like you've seen any of those trades kind of like positively impact the rest of your life? Like, if you're if you're ready to jump into a four wheeler and drive out the Utah from North Carolina, you know when you will encounter things in the day to day world that require that same spirit the same. Okay, well, let's just make it happen. I know I can do this. Do you feel like you're able to draw on that from this? Ah, this camping, you know, lifestyle.

spk_0:   48:07
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's there's two things that kind of with your question, I think of the 1st 1 is that sort of lake. You know, life is short, like life is short, You know, we just saw with Kobe, you know, life is

spk_1:   48:21
short, like,

spk_0:   48:23
don't wait and don't ask permission to stop the mission. Do you know that's the 1st 1 and another one is You talk about preparation, you know, being deliver it occupying space. Um, there's a There's a term that you hear a lot in the address space that we're real big on, called leave no trace and leave. No trace is like one of those tenants were basically You wanna leave it better than you found it?

spk_1:   48:51
Yeah, I needed

spk_0:   48:51
that. The space is like you're in the space you like. This is a joke. It's a waterfall, you know? Or I'm at a state park. And this horse I love

spk_1:   49:00
you.

spk_0:   49:02
It's like, you know, preserve that experience with the next person. Leave no trace. You pick up your trash. The cleaner that you

spk_2:   49:08
found

spk_0:   49:10
some of that gets into that cultural thing you're talking about two or you like Yo, we weren't allowed here. We weren't safe here. So it's one thing for us to get there. We may not know what the culture is, right? What's right? What's the educated like? We don't know. We were glad to be here,

spk_2:   49:28
right?

spk_0:   49:28
That's a big part of it too, right? And so, you know, some of that is just getting over your own fears and anxieties.

spk_2:   49:34
that's

spk_0:   49:35
learning by doing and making your mistakes. It's me that's being homo to be like. You know what? I don't know. Like I'm gonna have.

spk_1:   49:42
And I am

spk_0:   49:43
very uncomfortable, Especially if you're already an uncomfortable, you know, location, right? I mean, I won't let you know. We've seen things like Confederate flags out there and in the style of been spots where you go Whoa,

spk_2:   49:54
I don't want

spk_0:   49:55
to go over there.

spk_1:   49:56
Yeah, I'm

spk_0:   49:57
there and I'm not leaving now. I'm not saying I'm gonna can't besides from do you know, with the Confederate flag? But my point is like I just I made a decision to come to this place and they did to

spk_1:   50:09
the

spk_0:   50:09
places don't affect both of

spk_1:   50:12
us. That said,

spk_0:   50:15
I want to be anywhere near them. They will be near me either.

spk_1:   50:21
But I'm not

spk_0:   50:21
gonna be Ultima like, Oh, I don't belong here.

spk_2:   50:24
Yeah, no,

spk_0:   50:26
you know. And frankly, you know, I was right to be there. They you

spk_1:   50:30
know,

spk_0:   50:32
whatever the issue they have, that's their problem, not mine. That kind of attitude. And I'm really big on leg. Hey, you know, as we get out there more when we get more access to these places and go to his place and they start speeding up more, you know, leave it better than you found it. You know, we had this, uh, funny story because the Grand Canyon and, uh, you know, another couple were with Atlanta, uh, had some car trouble, and they had to deal with that, but get local traveling with the Navajos. But whatever the local tribe waas they kind of saw them and offer to give them help. And they actually ran tour groups of the Grand King

spk_1:   51:14
on, you

spk_0:   51:15
know, And just because they were so humble and kind and, you know, in polite, they basically said, Just hop in the truck with us. You know, we'll take you on a tour of the night, the rial green king and not with the tourists go, but like the whole, you know, the real Riel Canyon.

spk_1:   51:31
So they

spk_0:   51:32
had They

spk_1:   51:33
had this epic,

spk_0:   51:34
beautiful day today imports the green King in that people don't get access to because, you know, they were out there, and I think you know, the trouble is curious about them and their story, how they got there, and they were curious about the tribe and their story, what was really going on.

spk_2:   51:51
And

spk_0:   51:52
they had a conversation, and, you know, that could have gone a different way. You know, maybe they might have sensed the expensive accident, but that happens, right? You got it. You got to be homo to be like, Yo, I'm not perfect. I'm not here to, you know, you know, lead with the wrong foot.

spk_1:   52:09
Yeah,

spk_0:   52:10
I'm I'm I stumbled a little bit, you know? And that's okay. And they make stumbled too.

spk_1:   52:18
Yeah. I love the idea of, you know, Tribe called Camp is really you know, camping is you know, it's revolutionary is community. Um, it's you guys were getting out there and you're showing all of us something really new. A new side for us, of black people. So we are super excited, and, uh, we just might have to join you on the camping trip. Yeah,

spk_2:   52:43
we really help. Uh, you know, we love to hear it. Like the tribe starts toe, you know, run bigger excursions for some of the less experienced members of the community. I think that it's ah, it's a great way to bring that idea and bring that that lifestyle to more people way

spk_0:   53:01
would love to do that. We talked about doing it, you know, And again, some of that again is like, you know, the logistics, you know, And how do you do it safely? You know, that's the other thing, too. Is that you know when people feel comfortable, you know, and safe, you know? So we do our preparation to make sure that you

spk_2:   53:21
Yeah, absolutely. A man has been so much fun talking to you and learning about this. You know, uh, it's thinking about the desert. The forests, like the outdoors, all of it. It actually sounds like a lot of fun. Um, but now that we're coming to the end of our time, we always like to end our interviews with the A list. And that's one of our things that we have that we call where a is for activism is for action. It's for affirmation is for all kinds of positive interaction. So is there anyone is there a person, a group or an organization out there doing good work that you think we should all know about?

spk_0:   53:57
Yeah, You know what, man? Um, I'm sitting him again. Um at Staples intent. I mean, there who inspire us were to mention outdoor Afro and they're doing great things, But on a smaller scale, I think I mean, I talked a lot about just doing right. Like, don't don't let him People don't ask permission Don't let you no excuse Get in your way If you want to give you gonna do It's quite didn't do it I speak The people have no hope for the best are in the code And Sunday Staples were stable Tent They've got a YouTube channel Instagram All that stop. But we'll make some dope. Is they let you see the mistakes?

spk_2:   54:34
No,

spk_0:   54:35
they're going places we're going. They just did a frickin road trip to Columbia

spk_1:   54:41
Columbia, E B A k A Colombian. They

spk_0:   54:47
took their land cruiser, shifted to Colombia and did like a two week I think maybe 2 to 4 weeks like expeditious dow across Colombia.

spk_1:   54:57
Well, what dope is again, they

spk_0:   54:59
let you see, you know, the great moments and the challenges, you know? So you you talk about learning and kind of figuring out how this works and what do they're agree? Place to start, And for me, it's inspiring Does this was like, Yo, they don't let little let things get in their way, You know? They're like, Hey, what? It's a picture for a small trip. Wait to go So they just go, You know that

spk_1:   55:24
I can't wait to follow their excursions. Well, thank you so much. Ron. Check out Ron Fakes the Sorry. Well, thank you so much. Ron. Check out Ron Fraser and follow his excursions at a tribe called Camp on Instagram and follow us at Afro Chic and hashtag one story up form or discussions on travel, food, art and more.