Nikia Phoenix: Black Girl Beautiful

AphroChic presents One Story Up, a celebration of the culture of the African Diaspora and the stories that create it. This month we sit down with Nikia Phoenix to discuss modeling, activism, and the journey to self-love. 

Transcript

spk_1:   0:02
thistles, Janine Knees and Brian Mason of Afro Chic. And you're joining us for one story up, a celebration of the culture of the African diaspora and the stories that create it. Each

spk_0:   0:15
month we sit down with creatives, innovators and tastemakers from a variety of different disciplines to highlight the intersection and overlap these fields while elevating and expanding our notion of black culture. One story time

spk_1:   0:27
today we're in Brooklyn and we're talking with model activists and fellow podcaster the key of Phoenix. Nikki's we're so Oh, my gosh, We're so excited to have you on the podcast. Um, we always like to think about when we were talking to someone, you know, like, how did we connect with each other? Like, how did we first meet each other? And the funny thing is, we connected with you in that we did not meet you. It was that I was pinning pictures of this beautiful woman with beautiful freckles and you were just like on our Pinterest board. And I don't know. I always say, like, pictures has a little magic to it. Like sometimes things happen. But I think somehow it was like, Okay, you're gonna connect with this person one day

spk_0:   1:13
You were definitely on the pinchers. Boring, I think, Um, for me, actually, I saw the 23 me commercial. I think that was when I really like, first noticed. When I go, I recognize this face cause then that I had seen it on on the pinchers board as well,

spk_2:   1:29
mind blowing and really awesome.

spk_1:   1:31
Look at the power way manifested that we would connect. And, um, you know, a few a couple years ago now we were out in l. A. And we got to do, like, a 24 hour makeover of your home, which was one of our favorite projects that it turned out. So, so lovely. So I I hope that those pieces have gone with you to Atlanta.

spk_2:   1:56
Yes, absolutely. And it is hard to recreate the magic from that space because that space was great. You know, the the windows and all the light and just I love older buildings. I like the character older buildings in, like, 19 twenties banished style with the archways and everything. Uh, s so yes, The pieces have come along with me and they're beautiful and everything beautiful in its own way.

spk_1:   2:27
now Absolutely

spk_0:   2:29
great to hear. I mean, we love that project and was really fun hanging out with you. I mean, actually, I think that's still a record for us. 24 hours to do an entire interior design project and photo shoot. So I think that's still the fastest. We've managed to pull that off.

spk_2:   2:45
You are not that out the park,

spk_1:   2:48
I

spk_2:   2:48
mean Oh, my goodness.

spk_1:   2:52
Well, it was fun. And one of the things we love was just you know, you. I mean, you're just have, like, such a you know, open and in welcoming person. And so we were excited to talk with you today. Just about your journey and your path and all the things that you've been doing. And we wanted to start with, you know, your path to modeling, because I know that for you, it wasn't a linear path. You didn't even start out as a model. You started out in in news, right?

spk_2:   3:23
Has I actually started off a TV news producer for local South Carolina morning show and wow, the fact that I went from there into what I'm currently doing, I mean, that journey has been Ah, it's been kind of miraculous. I think that often people are afraid Thio start new to start fresh

spk_1:   3:46
to

spk_2:   3:46
reinvent mint balls or two evolved, and I'm hitting that point in my life now that I'm like, Okay, so this is what evolution looked like before it came. So it seems like it came so seamlessly. But here I am now realizing that it's been gracious about 15 years since I started my modeling career.

spk_1:   4:10
Wow.

spk_2:   4:12
And when I started, I started a 25 and that's normally when most models are ending their career getting started. So I had a very different perspective than my, um, fellow models and my perspective. Waas Okay, this is a legit career, and if I'm approaching this as a career and as a professional, then there's certain death. But I'm going to take that coming into the modeling world the way that I did. People weren't ready for me staying. Okay, so you're looking for you're looking for models who could do this? Well, here's my portfolio. That shows that they would come up with different excuses of why they didn't want to hire me, and it's like just

spk_1:   5:01
being honest with

spk_2:   5:02
me, I'm a professional, your professional. Let's cut out all the B s in the time. And just be honest with each other.

spk_1:   5:09
Absolutely.

spk_2:   5:10
Let me Let me give you the tools. Little better you are. Both of us could make this make this career for everyone.

spk_0:   5:22
Because, you know, like an honest conversation of lead to an honest resolution. Right? So right now, what was what was the period just before? Like the kind of walk us through that, like the build up to that transition from a TV news producer, you know, to a model. I mean, like, what was going on? The kind of like really finally made you take that last step in that direction.

spk_2:   5:48
Um, that's very interesting. I've come to realize now because I have a bigger perspective of exactly what I was going through, because I remember wanting to be a model as a kid and going to all those the model searches at mauled. You still hang out in malls. They're kind of mounting this now, but I remember that was those those models. Nurses were a thing, and I always wanted to do them, and I would do them that I'd get picked. But you know, it was taking it to the next step, the next level that always kind of Ah threw me off in it and it definitely threw my mother

spk_1:   6:38
off.

spk_2:   6:39
I don't think that she was ready for me to take that, That Lisa and I understand now that there's so much that so much that goes along with that. You know your identity and your self worth

spk_1:   6:52
those those

spk_2:   6:53
become challenged and and industries like fashion and beauty.

spk_1:   6:58
Yes,

spk_2:   6:59
and I know now that I was definitely not prepared for it. It's at that point in time. But when I when I left TV news and realistically I got fired from my second TV news job, I was very frustrated that I got let go. But I was also in a in a space that I was the Onley woman of color. In my position, the only woman of color, no running, basically running my own show. So there there are a lot of egos and TV news, and a lot of egos were not. We're not ready, we're not prepared.

spk_1:   7:39
And it's something that we see even now, like the lack of inclusivity you know in in that field, You know of media. Um, in general, when I think of you like you're, you know, you're so good at, you know, communicating to people that you are, you know, constantly evolving. And we all are. I think that you're very open and honest about it through, you know, social media and how you talk about it. Um, and you do modeling that is your profession. But, you know, you're also someone who you know, I think a lot of women look to as an activist about, you know, beauty and about self care and self love. And you created something that was called Model Liberation. What led you to create that effort? And, you know, I'm not sure if it's still active, but did it fulfill its purpose in terms of what you were working to create?

spk_2:   8:35
Wow, that model liberation. My baby, my very first blogged I it was created us out of frustration. I was frustrated with the things that I was being, um, challenged with challenge by in modeling. And I kept wondering, why is no one talking about this?

spk_1:   8:55
Because

spk_2:   8:56
my model friends and I would be each other casting on auditions and we would extreme stories, but I kept the game. Why isn't this being shared on a on a more public space where we can all talk about it? Because views the things that were happening to me and were happening? My friends were actually universal And what I realized when I started writing Ma deliberation Woz It wasn't just specifically about the modeling industry model. Liberation branched out in touch so many people because it's ultimately was about self love and identity.

spk_1:   9:33
Well, yeah,

spk_2:   9:35
but I I didn't realize that until non models started commenting and timing in and, you know, the Internet opened up this community that I wasn't aware of until I started.

spk_0:   9:51
It was actually, I guess, kind of an interesting concept, that step, you know, a model advocating for other models, right? Because, you know, from the outside, it seems like the circumstances of this setup are much more competitive. Much more, you know, Um no. Adversarial. So the idea of being able to stand up and say Okay, well, here are the negative situations that are we're all being confronted with. Here is a safe space for us to talk about them and kind of support each other. Um, this is only there was something inherently revolutionary and that and what were the reactions to it? Sort of inside, you know, the industry and among other models,

spk_2:   10:31
most of my most of my friends. It's very funny because my friends would be me right before a fashion show. I had my laptop out or I hadn't iPad and then, like sitting there blogging and typing there was what is what is going

spk_1:   10:45
on?

spk_2:   10:46
Afterwards they would read what I would. I wrote what I posted in there like, Oh my goodness, you're curing the whole time

spk_1:   10:53
Little investigative reporter. And

spk_2:   10:58
but it allowed. I think it's open up other models, male and female, to realize that the things that were happening to them individually were happening across the board and that it's okay to speak up. That is okay, Thio, tell your agents to tell whatever photographer who never

spk_1:   11:19
that

spk_2:   11:20
you're comfortable or uncomfortable with stern situation, and you don't have to stay in that place. You can leave.

spk_1:   11:27
Yeah,

spk_2:   11:28
nothing dear sanity and your well being is not worth a paycheck.

spk_1:   11:33
Absolutely, absolutely. And it sounds like so you had model liberation, and that was the first baby, and then the second baby was black girl. Beautiful. Um, I we love black robe. Beautiful. It was one of, you know, on the cover of issue two of the magazine you're wearing this this shirt that says, black girl, beautiful. And, um, it really struck me personally because it's something that, you know, as a black girl was always challenged, you know, Are you Are we beautiful? You know, like, people would suggest that black women could not be beautiful or that we you know, that, um, you know that we were outside of those, you know, normative beauty standards. So So tell us a black about black girl, beautiful and why it was necessary to widen. You know your effort to something that was a little bit more universal for all black women.

spk_2:   12:30
Black girl. Beautiful. My baby continues to be my baby in a end. Sometimes your baby can, uh, take from you more than it gives

spk_1:   12:39
That I was

spk_2:   12:41
I've definitely been feeling like that often on with black girl. Beautiful. Yes. I see. The impact that it had and continues to have on women is after consistent and and young girls because the

spk_1:   12:55
working girl

spk_2:   12:55
isn't This isn't the name, but, you know, girls terminating spearmint.

spk_1:   13:02
Exactly,

spk_2:   13:04
but But it's it's sprung from the idea of weight we spend. We have. We spent all of this money. We have have all of this economic power. We insolence So many things, however, like what's really behind all that? Why do we keep getting office money and do we genuinely flex? Our buying power is

spk_1:   13:26
more moist. That is a major because, I mean, we like you said. I mean, I think a lot of people don't realize that you black women alone will contribute trillion over a trillion dollars to the economy. I think in, like, the next year. Maybe it is 2020 or 2021. Um, and like you said, we have this economic power. Um, but But where where do we use it? How do we utilize it? And do we even know that we hold the power of the person that way?

spk_2:   13:58
Exactly. So it's one of the one of the video products that I started doing them. I'm definitely gonna bring back around because it was so meaningful. It really drove the message home. I was good a friend down and interview her and just asked When was the first time that you realized you were beautiful

spk_1:   14:18
and that

spk_2:   14:19
question alone gets so many of us stuck? Because it's like, Wait, do I Do I really know? Do I know what I'm worth? Do I know? Do I know the beautiful energy that I have and many of us like we're We're discovering, Mac,

spk_0:   14:38
we're

spk_2:   14:40
discovering

spk_1:   14:41
that that

spk_2:   14:42
question like everybody away

spk_1:   14:45
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting, like, you know, that question and then thinking about, you know, like you said, this sort of younger generation, these young girls who are growing up in an error where they do see a lot of representation. Um, you know, our niece is seven and she knows she's beautiful. You know that she does that. She'll tell us, you know, like she she is very confident. But like you were saying for, you know, our generation and those who are even older. Um, that question is something that, you know, we still have to grapple with our own feelings about you know, how we feel about about our beauty.

spk_0:   15:24
And I think that touches on something, you know, interesting. Because it's It's something that's always present, and we don't really always go directly at it. So and even for our knees who? Yes, she's very confident herself right now. She knows that she's beautiful. She knows is he's smart, but we know that there's a world out there that will challenge those perceptions about herself, and you know the extent to which you'll be able to hold on to them. One is the support of the family, but it's it's ultimately a question is, are questions about why is that a question? So this is the age of essence fest, Black girl magic and black girls rock. And yet somehow the beauty of black women as a whole still continues to be in question. Or it's conditional on some continually shifting standard that you know, no one seems to be willing to take responsibility for. So how is it that with all of these affirmations, you know, they're still we still have a situation where if you sit down with an individual black woman, say, When did you know you were beautiful? How is it that that still becomes a sticking point?

spk_2:   16:34
That's so it's so layered where every single human being on this planet is we're conditioned and were taught turn things

spk_0:   16:46
on.

spk_2:   16:46
And then we we start. Maybe we have anxiety or the start getting depressed, because what we've been wired to think is not how we genuinely feel Those things start to conflict specifically with with black women and black people. We have all the all the wiring that messed up, that that conflicting with how we feel. And then the messages that that we've been bombarded with dinner race, Nelly come into play.

spk_1:   17:27
Post

spk_2:   17:28
traumatic slave syndrome comes into play. So from so many different directions were hit with untruth about ourselves. And there's that one little voice that's hiding somewhere deep inside that's telling you that you're that you're loved and you're worth it. So it's about making that voice louder than everything out.

spk_1:   17:50
Yeah, and so it's it's, you know, giving voice. Um, what other ways do you think that you know, black women think activities or things that we need to do to, you know, break that cycle. Whoa. Like

spk_2:   18:10
this? Um, I I spoke on a panel about black beauty a few weeks ago at Clark Atlanta University

spk_1:   18:19
night, and it was

spk_2:   18:20
Actually, it was. It was a wonderful panel discussion, and it was presented by True Colors. Theater was business African American theater company here in Atlanta, and the topic was way talk all about black beauty and messaging that we that we get and the majority of the people in the audience were older, black women and having Thio. And I have to do this with my mom sometimes while challenge the things that she's been taught about herself

spk_1:   18:58
and about

spk_2:   18:59
blackness.

spk_0:   18:59
Yes,

spk_2:   19:00
and I understand that that I have three nieces and I love them to death, and I speed on discovering themselves in coming into themselves. My task as volunteer is encouraged them to do that, but also to remind my mother and my sister and everyone else around them to check themselves because you don't want to put your own anxieties and untruth on someone that's still developing.

spk_1:   19:31
Yes, they're

spk_2:   19:33
self identity,

spk_1:   19:35
Absolutely, and I think that that is true. I mean, um, makes me think of over the holidays. We were, you know, home with our family, and ah cousin brought over his new baby and her hair. Was she just her hair? It was style that was natural was out in one of our aunts went You have to brush that baby's hair. You know, that was like her first thing she said I was like, her hair is beautiful like Wait a minute, What lens miss stuff right now like and you know, it was partly, you know, are the the on or family member who just she did not grow up thinking that natural hair was beautiful and so to her, it was like, Oh, this is bad. You know, like you're you guys aren't doing the right thing. And I actually said I said, You know, her natural hair is beautiful and he's young, you know, these kids now they're growing up with their natural hair and they don't you know, there's nothing wrong with it, you know, when she was kind of like, Oh, you know, Okay, um but I think like you said, especially the older generation, it just is a barrel. Um, honestly exposing them to our points of view and younger people's points of view, saying, Hey, there is nothing wrong with me being naturally who I am with my hair with my curves with any other parts of ourselves as black women, and I think in some ways we're inspiring them. So I'm glad to hear that you were doing a panel that at Clark, and that there were a lot of older women that were in in the audience, that I hope that they were inspired hearing young women in our embrace of ourselves,

spk_2:   21:11
right, Because our generation we bridged the gap between the younger generation and the older weaken. We can help the older generations be, and we can help. The younger generation learns.

spk_1:   21:27
Yeah, I love that. That's a powerful way to break the cycle.

spk_2:   21:32
It, it genuinely is. And when we heal ourselves, we hear our ancestors.

spk_1:   21:39
We

spk_2:   21:40
feel the future generation, what comes after us. So I think it's that self love. That work that we do now is so its monumental.

spk_0:   21:50
Absolutely,

spk_2:   21:50
I refuse to take. I want post traumatic place in Durham to be, um, it's

spk_1:   21:58
e wanted

spk_2:   22:00
to be. I wanted to be something that generations from now they're like Wait, didn't exist. They acknowledge that, yes, our ancestors did go through these things, but it's not having such a strong effect on them

spk_0:   22:12
different, right? I mean, it's interesting. The thing that we love so much about talking to you is that you bring a journalistic level of analysis to, you know, so many different things that we're talking about specifically within. You know, your industry of modeling, and as a model, you're a part of an industry that basically equates beauty with value. And so I'm interested to know what lessons that's taught you about, really, How to distinguish between the two and the importance of, you know, understanding the connection, but keeping, you know, the kind of, like the the separation

spk_2:   22:57
beauty value. Because, yes, everything fashion, modeling, it is all about aesthetic. And I remember being I remember being in Milan and going to casting 10 plus years ago and being frustrated that I would get to a casting. And maybe there was one other other black girl there, and he would give me a heads up like a girl. Now they're not looking for us.

spk_1:   23:33
Oh, wow.

spk_2:   23:35
And it was like, you know, I'm

spk_1:   23:38
I'm confused

spk_2:   23:39
by it. Leg, But wait, This the casting notice does all ethnicities looking like No, no, no. That's not what they're actually what they're actually looking for, but even then having to realize that that that does not someone else's opinion does not affect my own self worth, and I didn't know exactly how to articulate that den. But I know how to. Now. Someone else's opinion does not have a suspect on my for

spk_1:   24:18
I'm Still

spk_2:   24:19
who I am. I am so loved. I'm still worthy despite what anyone else thinks there's been. There's been so much reprogramming do. Do you think about that? Because no, if I go to an artist now, most of trying, yes, it's getting looking for look

spk_1:   24:42
right?

spk_2:   24:44
But what I realized what I bring is a specific energy.

spk_1:   24:50
Yes,

spk_2:   24:50
and that energy 10 8 consisting I've definitely gone into auditions where they're not looking for me whatsoever, but my energy

spk_0:   25:05
Afro Chic magazine is a lifestyle publication celebrating design our food and fashion from across the African diaspora. Roots says average chic magazines for us by us celebrating our own comparable influence. Get the magazine that celebrates the culture at afro chic dot com.

spk_1:   25:30
Absolutely. I can see that I can see that because you have such a positive energy about you, and you've been sharing that that energy with all of us through your in your newest project, your newest baby, the Nikki of Phoenix podcast. And you know the podcast. We've been listening to it, and it's an intimate exploration of your own experiences with what we're all we're talking about. Value, beauty, self care. And you are so open in the podcast about the journey that you're on. What made you want t open yourself up that much to an online audience to this audience. That's, you know, listening and streaming it or even on your instagram to the audience is sort of watching as you are on your own. Um, you know, path to growth in transformation.

spk_2:   26:24
I realized that there is. There's drinks and vulnerability.

spk_0:   26:32
Mmm.

spk_2:   26:33
And But in order for me to really I'm on this path of feeling and this journey is self discovery that in order for me to do that, I have to be transparent and be really, really with myself. I don't There doesn't need to be a difference between, like my social media avatar and who I am. And I think that that actually,

spk_1:   27:06
absolutely, I mean, that's powerful in itself, right? The

spk_0:   27:09
idea of of like truth and social media are honesty, whereas you know typically and you're seeing like where people are having these negative reactions, we will. You know, I had to take a break from social media or, you know, young young people, you know, boys and girls, you know, going through these sort of like mental distress because either they're not able to make their social media look as perfect as they wanted to or because they feel like what they're seeing on social media is saying, showing that someone else has a life that's more perfect than their own. Um is so kind of try and break through that distortion of reality that this is, um is really interesting a very, very brave project to take on. And we want to know what's what. What are you hoping that your listeners will get from it, And is there anything that you're hoping to get in return?

spk_2:   28:00
There's while there's so much. But I'm hoping to get in return just by just by expressing

spk_1:   28:09
myself, because

spk_2:   28:11
I felt when I moved to Atlanta, I say that I moved here because my heart led me here and I wasn't quite sure how that was going toe play out. I just knew that it needed to happen. So with the with the podcast and I haven't recorded an episode in a couple of months, Um, I'm probably gonna record something today. Conversations firing me because I'm I'm looking to heal and be able to show people that feeling is not 1/2 tag. His matter. Hash tag, self love, not 1/2 bag. Health care is not hashtag these air things there that are very riel and that we experience and that it doesn't have to be picture perfect and pretty because often it's not means pass tag, ugly, cry. You

spk_1:   29:17
know

spk_2:   29:19
I love Iowa David crying. It

spk_0:   29:26
is like she leans into that crowd.

spk_2:   29:29
Yes, so I want I want I want auto lean into it because I can't you tell when somebody's not being real

spk_1:   29:37
with you. Absolutely. Yeah,

spk_2:   29:41
And when you were your authentic self and you're living in your true self and tapping into wire, you're here, your purpose and all of that, it's somehow give other people permission

spk_1:   30:05
you're talking about, you know, tapping in into your purpose and end in tow. Authenticity. It's almost It's interesting because in some ways, that isn't always the conversation about self care. And I learned from you listen to the podcast and reading some things about self love, which I think is definitely, you know, a term that I hear even less, but it seems like it's even more important. You know what? What? What should people be thinking about or or reflecting on when they're thinking about, you know, trying to embrace, you know, self love? Um, you know, what does it mean to you? I guess that that journey, because I think that you talking about has inspired me to go Wow. Like I've talked, I think about self care looking like, oh, I need to do yoga and let me, like, meditate and, you know, let me make sure I eat, you know, really well. But those things, a lot of those things are still very external. Um, and not necessarily about loving who I am. So what is that journey to self love?

spk_2:   31:11
Oh, wow. My my map itself. Love is very confusing. Convoluted. And is it? I've been saying this out loud to myself into other people. Progress is not just taking stuff. Board is taking steps to the left the right turn around a little bit, doing another little to step in. But you're moving the perp. The point is that you're moving out. Point a moving out. Not necessarily forward, but you're moving out.

spk_1:   31:46
Interesting

spk_2:   31:48
for me. Self love is saying Okay, I'm here. I'm here for a Wait. How did I get How did I get here? Okay, let me I can look back that where I come from, but I'm not going back there.

spk_1:   32:06
That place

spk_2:   32:07
is not was not good. Good for me necessarily. But what can I learn from mom? And what can I take with me to the next destination and genuine leave? Because we are going

spk_1:   32:23
to take some steps

spk_2:   32:24
back. And that's okay. Having being your own best friend is very important. Often we overextend ourselves, especially as women we overextend ourselves. People don't do it for us. Self love is having having that grace for yourself. I used to beat myself off whenever when I waas and the depression thinking right? Wait, I'm going. I'm going to therapy. I'm taking medications and whatever it have a breakdown. I would beat myself up about having a breakdown,

spk_0:   33:04
huh?

spk_2:   33:06
Self love for me now is saying like, Hey, you're gonna have moments and that's okay. You're still moving out from Point A. And that's what modern

spk_0:   33:16
right? Absolutely. I think there's something that's really, really, really interesting this going on here, Um, and it's that, as you said, we're all formed. We're all conditioned in certain ways for good as well as for l. You know, social norms by themselves and not bad things. But there are bad social norms, and so we kind of grew up in the context of basically everything that's happened before we were here, and getting past that or even taking control of it in order to shape yourself into the person that you want ultimately armed to the person that you ultimately I feel you want to or should be is an incredibly difficult process to go through. And few people even stumble onto the beginning of it, much less pursue it all the way through. On the other hand, at the same time, you know, if we were to take, you know, models as a concept, not as a person but as a concept is something that's entirely shaped by outside perceptions. You know, it's you know, model is carrying in a fashion sense. You know someone else's vision, Um, in a marketing sense, you know, you're conveying someone else's brand or identity, and from the public sense, you know, like the value of beauty is basically in other people's perceptions. So from that context to take on that journey, you know, with all this sort of like added, you know, into just the basic sense of being, you know, a person struggling with, you know, working out the distance between the conditioning and the true self. Um, and then they do it publicly. You know, through social media, through blog's through different events. You know, it's almost, you know, not only forging your own map, but you're clueing other people into the fact that there is a road to be traveled and that here is a way to do, basically demonstrating, you know, your own journey, the ups and the downs, the struggles and and all the triumphs of it, you know, And in that threw that in that through line model liberation Black, oh, beautiful. And in the key of Phoenix podcast all start to seem like they fit together as part of this ongoing conversation that you're having your trying have with the rest of us. Um and so we're curious to know, like, ultimately, what form do you think this dream might take? And what if we all listened? You know, what would the world look like? You know, And you're my leg. Didn't that utopian sense then?

spk_2:   36:07
Sure. Ah, utopian sense there. Um, I think that I feel like I wanted each individual to be able to see themselves. And you also see the beauty of humanity. There's this exercise that I've done in my and kundalini yoga crosses. That's really beautiful. Where you're you're sitting cross legged in front of someone else and you're staring intensely into the other person's eyes and being them really being them and like you're not looking away, like for however many minutes you and that person are locked. They're so different from you. But get in those moments you were so alike. You see each other and you realize that new are sharing this universal energy. And I think in mine. In my utopia, we speak each other's universal energies. We feel it and get me still stolid, celebrate each other's individuality because my my energy. It's not conflicting with your energy. It's coming together with yours to make this entire universal energy. And I think differences, Yes, thanks. This yes, we can celebrate him. But that doesn't mean that I'm any better than someone else, or I'm any less than anyone else. Oh, we're all equal.

spk_1:   37:59
Yeah, absolutely. I love that vision. It is. It's beautiful. And it's about what you're putting. You know, that energy that you're putting out in the world and you're always, you know, creating and putting so much out in the world. One of the things is, you know, it seems like just after you moved to Atlanta, you did this incredible mural project, Um, that we saw popping up all over online, and I can't wait to see it the next time we get down to Atlanta to see it in person. But it's the Brown girl. Beautiful mural. How did that come about? And, you know, what was the message? Um, that that you were that you were sending out there to the women in the local community?

spk_2:   38:47
Mmm. Oh, my Oh, I love this woman. I love this one. Uh, this news, this is one of the times that I could say yes. Black girl Beautiful has given back to me. The way that this mural came about is that I've been dreaming about doing it for a while, and I I knew what it was going to say. I always knew that I just didn't know how and where, and you know, all of these things. And last year, the company Pledge World approached me and said that they wanted to help me. Still a dream

spk_1:   39:23
with

spk_2:   39:24
Like what?

spk_1:   39:25
Yeah, Like like yes, thank you. Every week,

spk_2:   39:33
like they're you have restricted.

spk_1:   39:40
I

spk_2:   39:40
don't have anyone. Okay? And what I decided to do with this mural like, Okay, but someone's approaching me. Yeah, it would have been wonderful to do so many other things. Like someone's approaching me for saying that they want to help me with a dream. Well, here it is. This is this is what this is. And my good friends. Bottom Stevens was the artist behind it, and so many other so many other minds and hearts winning to actually making this come to fruition. But the hey brown girl mural is It's essentially my love letter to black and brown girls everywhere, especially in the city of Atlanta, because this is still Chocolate City here.

spk_1:   40:31
Yes, I

spk_2:   40:33
want us to know how much power we have and how important we are, and we give so much. But Gracie, but But he needs to show some appreciation

spk_1:   40:44
toast.

spk_2:   40:45
That's essentially what the what? The mural is a love letter.

spk_1:   40:49
Oh,

spk_2:   40:50
friendly little reminder like the hey girl after you.

spk_1:   40:55
What an absolutely beautiful love letter for so many, You know, young young girls and young women and the women of, you know, to walk past and reflect on themselves. That's just something very special on,

spk_2:   41:12
really. It's really exciting to be families. I've seen families go out there and take pictures. I'm just being fathers with their daughters out there taking pictures. It's like, Yes, you go ahead and from your little girl.

spk_0:   41:28
Yeah, that's the the ness of amazing you know, image and that that example right there because, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, black women and beauty and the the gaze of society, responsive society, things like that. But black women aren't in this alone, and they definitely shouldn't be, Um so do you feel that black men have any meaningful role of responsibility in affirming the beauty of black women?

spk_2:   41:54
Who? Yeah, we're having, like, real real talk, right?

spk_1:   41:59
You like to be real in here, do you?

spk_2:   42:05
Um, I I think that wow, this is It's so layered its layers. I'm often surprised that the Blackmon who don't affirm black women where it's like, Well, where do you think you came from?

spk_1:   42:22
Right, Right. What do you think you came from your

spk_2:   42:26
pop up on the earth. Like

spk_1:   42:29
where you looking like a woman? That that made you

spk_2:   42:35
a black woman who poured in love into you. So, you know, I would think that your duty would be the poor love right back and nowhere in your community into yourself. Because essentially, well, Brit with black people

spk_1:   42:55
way

spk_2:   42:55
have to pour 11 to ourselves. We have to affirm each other.

spk_1:   42:59
Yeah, I'm

spk_2:   43:00
gonna do it.

spk_1:   43:02
Absolutely. Yeah. It's part of that self love that we're talking about. It's a communal self love as well

spk_0:   43:08
as important. I think like as much as we talk about, you know, get into these conversations on toxic masculinity specifically with regard to black man. You know the idea that spreading love, protecting and defending, you know not just your community on a physical level, but also like it's perception and its understanding of itself, its value of itself, both what it produces and you know, the beauty of the people who comprise it. That's a very interesting counter argument to those narratives

spk_2:   43:40
here. I mean, I think that I think that black women definitely set a standard, and when we are able to do embraced ourselves, we encourage others to embrace themselves also. So the number of the number of I'm so really I'm really, really proud to be be black male organizations that have been springing up in the past three years that are about blackmail. Wellness

spk_0:   44:14
on.

spk_2:   44:14
And you know, there's my friend has one called Blackman Smile. I mean, I think that's so important because you don't you know, every day you don't get it. You don't get to be that that beauty and I think that I mean, he's literally told me like last woman started it, we just care. We carried on

spk_1:   44:35
way

spk_2:   44:40
feed into each other, and we have to remember that

spk_1:   44:43
e encourage. I love that partnership. You know in collaboration is necessary. So you are up to so many things. Um What's next? What's next on the horizon for you?

spk_2:   45:00
You think I really want to do another? Hey, Brown girl mural?

spk_1:   45:06
Hopefully in Brooklyn, Brooklyn, maybe Brooklyn for filling

spk_2:   45:10
Brooklyn. Sounds great. Brooklyn sounds wonderful. Philly sounds great. I'm open. You know, someone wants the

spk_1:   45:17
hell. Even the villa

spk_2:   45:18
dreams this tree, and then I'm open for

spk_1:   45:22
it. I also want to do

spk_2:   45:23
one of us.

spk_1:   45:24
Oh, that makes you dream. Absolutely. We might have to think We have to put our thinking after I

spk_0:   45:31
mean, Phillies the land of murals Way. This is true. We put him

spk_1:   45:35
everywhere. Yeah. So you know, if we can if we can aid in any way, we will We will put our thinking caps on about, you know, if we know a spot. But, um well, I would love to see it here and for short.

spk_2:   45:54
It needs to be there. It needs to be there. Um, the other thing that I'm because I realized that as much as I give the black girl beautiful, I have to get as much for myself. So there are some besides the podcast with dollar inspire me to record another episode

spk_1:   46:13
today.

spk_2:   46:17
I There's something that I've been toying with a very, very long time. And anyone that follow me on social media and paid attention to my routine and my hashtags, um, morning with Nakia.

spk_1:   46:32
Yeah,

spk_2:   46:34
so that I want to do and I'm going

spk_1:   46:35
todo I I loved your morning affirmation. They realize, like, this is so calm, like it's so peaceful, like, even just to watch it is here, he just brings other people calm so that that would be incredible.

spk_2:   46:53
That's not I mean, realistically coming full circle. My very first job, like we talked about earlier, was as a TV news producer for morning show. So why wouldn't I do this?

spk_1:   47:08
It was wonderful. I can't wait. So we can't wait Thio to T. O. K. That's mornings with you. I know Brian has one more question. Got to do this relating all. Anything we've been talking about is looking at me like if I don't get to ask this question, Yeah, I'm not going in. That sort of you were just gonna keep going until

spk_0:   47:29
there's time for this question because I know that we talked about all kinds of stuff we talked about, you know, the esoterica and the everything. But I know the one thing that I super enjoyed about hanging out with you and that I know not a lot of people know about you is that you are a serious comic book geek.

spk_2:   47:46
Yeah.

spk_0:   47:49
So you just go break through all the all the veneer right now, he doesn't talk about how much fun it is to sit around and talk Marvel and DC movies with Nikki Phoenix. So

spk_2:   48:00
I literally Yes, yes, yeah.

spk_0:   48:05
I

spk_2:   48:05
mean, I'm so never been thrown me for a loop.

spk_1:   48:11
I'm

spk_2:   48:12
I'm really I need I need DC comics to really get on it with

spk_1:   48:17
next. Wait. What was the loop? Was endgame overwhelming? Because I cried for I We saw three times I cried for three full hours the first time I cried for about an hour ago. I think in time that there when I think I cried again for three full

spk_0:   48:36
The weird thing is, the third time we saw it like they were like she was fine. But they're like six other people in the theater, like bawling their eyes out. It was crazy.

spk_1:   48:42
Was it too much? Was it overwhelming?

spk_2:   48:45
It was. It was overwhelming. I wasn't ready. And then when I watched, um, the last fighter man, I was like, I'm sorry. Why did Why did l didn't know Like it my most.

spk_1:   48:59
It's emotional, It's hard. It's bad because he got me into this. But I got me into this, and now we can't watch anything because I start crying. Now I'm like, Well, I can't look at this because I know this really. So

spk_0:   49:12
now I can't watch any Marvel movies because, you know, I definitely have to say I liked the Spider Man movie the second Spider Man movie, but I know it was like it was so early was so it was all so fresh. It was just hard to pick it up and like, do that again. But

spk_2:   49:26
right,

spk_1:   49:27
exactly. Yeah way kind

spk_0:   49:36
of like so. But we let we're loving every second of it. It is awesome. It's amazing. That's the only thing that got It gives us hope for d. C. You know, going forward because like that's good. The movies haven't really

spk_1:   49:49
Regina King, is it? It's just yeah, killing. Talk about black girl

spk_0:   49:54
power like under D. C. Regina King will save you, like recognize that?

spk_1:   50:00
Oh, my

spk_2:   50:01
goodness. Because because I felt like I felt like I had to play catch up between Like, you know what I'm used to from watchman to catch up with this, you know, extension of the universe. I guess that it was just like, Whoa, wait. What? Okay, alternate. Okay, But, you know, my head and

spk_1:   50:20
my mind was blown. And

spk_2:   50:22
also, like, super geek out watching it. I kid you not watching it on the internet, flipping through stuff I'm like, Okay, wait. And issue number Global Bluff is yet been comparing with all

spk_1:   50:36
Yeah, it s time we talk with you. Well, dio a complete yes, comic book world, you know. Ah, discussion. I know there's,

spk_0:   50:47
like, a whole healing but comic book shop style. Like we might even come down there and do it from a comic shop. Just let's just do it crazy. But thank you so much. Thank you. We love talking to you about everything. Absolutely everything. Um and I were coming to the end of this particular interview. We will have more conversations. We always like to end our interviews with what we call that a list. And for us, A is about activism. It's about actions by affirmation is about all types of positive interactions. So we want you to let us know if there is any person, group organization. Anyone is out there doing the good work that you think we should all know about

spk_2:   51:30
you. Uh oh. Doing the good work. Uh, okay. Okay. I am going thio spout out. I'm gonna shout out so hard because there were a couple that really my friend Bosco has a creative agency that I think he they keep pushing the envelope, and I like it and they're like, No, we're gonna be heard. And the agency is called plug agency. I really love the work that they dio. Bosco's such a such a phenomenal artist. And that's a phenomenal leader. And I like that they dio they do work with bigger brands in the challenge of bigger brands to think outside the box. Doing

spk_1:   52:23
that is awesome. I

spk_2:   52:25
love that they do that. Um, I'm also I've also been really digging in to a lot of How should I put it of? There's a, um you are

spk_1:   52:43
I think

spk_2:   52:43
is a fantastic, you know, talking about black women and wellness. And I think that that they do it so well and they're so often taking real with their messaging. And I'm I'm always amazed that black women organizations, but keep pushing the mark and keep reminding us. But we're that we're love on that. You deserve the half piece. Also one last one. Because this is really interesting to me as well. Um, it's called the nap Ministry. You. So they're in their instagram bio. It says we examine the liberating power nap. We believe rest is a form of resistance in reparations.

spk_0:   53:34
Oh, I like that.

spk_2:   53:37
And it's like, Oh, wait. Yeah, you're right. I think that fact really powerful, So yes.

spk_1:   53:46
All right. I can't wait to check them. And you didn't Guess I need more care. I really do need this map. So thank you so much, Nikki. Thank you for being on our podcast. Thank you. Thank you. We love talking with you and hope to see you next time you're up here in in Brooklyn. No, in. So check out the key of Phoenix on Instagram at Nikki of Phoenix and the Nicky, a Phoenix podcast on apple podcasts and follow us at Afro Chic and hash tag. One story up for more discussions on fashion, art, design and more. Thanks. The key. Yeah. Thank

spk_0:   54:26
you, Nikita. That was awesome. Afro Chic magazine is a lifestyle publication celebrating design our food and fashion from across the African aspirin roots says average chic magazines for us by us celebrating our own comparable influence. Get the magazine that celebrates the culture at afro chic dot com.